Wednesday, March 18, 2009

Monday Session Meeting

The Session of Stodgy Presbyterian met this Monday evening, and not much really happened besides the usual reports and stuff.

Then I gave my report of the Saturday special called meeting of Presbytery. When I mentioned the vote on 08-B, one of the elders spoke up and asked, What, do they vote on this every year?

I said, not really, its just that a certain faction will not take no for an answer.

And so it goes ....


  1. For going on thirty years now, a certain faction has not taken no for an answer!

    I had a seminary classmate who had the opposite view on just about everything than I. Well, actually I had alot of classmates like that! But this particular classmate and I could sit and have quite honest and profound conversations on this particular issue. Once he said something to the effect of, "at some point, I may have to finally accept the fact that this is not God's will, and God has spoken." I was truly touched by his depth of honesty.

  2. Kim,

    I have to admire your classmate's honesty. That said, for every one of those honest people, there are probably ten who will see the increase in 'Yes' votes in the presbyteries as an encouragement that popular opinion is moving their way.

    As long as some see it as a social justice issue, and not that of sin, they will continue to justify their activities as being the same as stopping slavery or ordaining women.

  3. Yes, I absolutely agree that they see any yes vote, any presbytery which has "switched sides" as encouragement and affirmation. And yes, that will always be the case as long as they do not see it as an issue of sin.

  4. RC,

    Oh, the fun you are having. I am guessing that 08-B will fail by a handful of presbyteries this time. It might even replicate the failure of the "Property Trust" amendment in 1929, when a 4 presbytery plurality favored the amendment, but 14 did not vote and the amendment failed for want of a majority.

    If that happens, watch the propaganda machine spin up as they begin the process for 2010. More faithful churches will leave for other homes in the PCA, EPC, NWEPC or independency, and by 2010, you will have a switch to no ordination standards and, perhaps, same sex "marriage." More Light, TAMFS, and Covenant Network smell blood in the water, and they are ready to swarm.

  5. I had another thought about this as I was waiting for the puppy to do "bidness" outside this morning - oh the things that will come to mind as one is potty-training! -

    I don't have stats to bear this out, but I would guess that part of the reason that the vote appears closer and that so many presbyteries are switching sides is that so many of the conservative churches have left the denomination.

  6. Mac,

    I suspect that new overtures for 2010 are being written even as I type.


    that's true, but I also suspect that other things are happening:

    1) many congregations have dismissed themselves in place. That is, they have basically pulled out of any contact with Presbytery, Synod or GA, yet are listed in the PCUSA.

    2) other congregations are tired of having to decide something that they thought was already decided.

    3) yet others are dismayed by the open partisan mailings, phone call, etc. I had written a blog post about one side doing the phone calls, turns out at Plodding Presbytery, a week before the called meeting, the other side called pastors asking for their support and vote.


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